Posts by Cold Steel

18

"New Generation Teaching Proves How Close the End Is"

by Sour Grapes in

recently a circuit overseer said in one of his talks that the new light.

on the generation teaching shows how very close the end is because.

there will be a time when the over lap will end.

Cold Steel

There are many of us who believe that our economic depression is worsening and that war and natural disasters will become more widespread; however, I'm afraid many Witnesses will take these biblically-prophesied events as evidence that their Armageddon is upon them. The Bible prophesies that these things will occur, but fulfillment doesn’t necessarily mean that the Witnesses are finally correct. It simply means that biblical fulfillment is coming to pass.

The worst thing Christians of any ilk can do is assume that God will deliver them and that all they have to do is find a hilltop. We were warned of these things so we could prepare ourselves. Buy food and supplies that you may need if a societal breakdown occurs. Things to beware of include pandemics, solar or atomic-induced electromagnetic pulse (EMP), earthquakes, hurricanes and wars that may cut off the supply of oil and thus food, heating and, ultimately, air conditioning. Breakdowns also may occur over worsening economic conditions. With these calamities, Jehovah’s Witnesses and others may initially be caught up with the thrill of having been right…late, but right. But when deliverance doesn’t come, that thrill may turn to despair.

Take a look at After Armageddon and this excellent piece entitled A Terrorist Dream, followed by this video on Electromagnetic Pulse.

Just before the Romans came down on Jerusalem, the apostles gathered the early Christians to Pella. This happened around 66 A.D., so there was plenty of time. The Bible warns us, too, about what will befall us in the latter days. Armageddon is a battle that will take place just outside of Jerusalem. It has NOTHING to do with the battle that Jehovah's Witnesses are expecting. If JWs and other Christians think God will catch them up in a rapture or feed them with manna, they're sorely mistaken. The time will come when there will be a rapture, but it will happen years after wars and natural disasters sweep the land and Christ returns at the Mount of Olives. Get a few months of food and supplies and yes, even a couple of guns and some ammo. It won't hurt to be self sufficient and if Jehovah comes along and whisks you away, great. But most people will not prepare themselves, I fear. We humans are more apt to get on top of rooftops and flap our arms like chickens when trouble comes. In our day and age, that may be a fatal mistake.

47

We were all Atheists when we were born, at what age did you change?

by cyberjesus in

i was a born in.

but when i was born i knew nothing.

i had no deity nor i knew what a god was therefore i was atheist.

Cold Steel

a-the-ism: 1.a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. 2. Godlessness; immorality.

dis-be-lief: n. Refusal or reluctance to believe.

Atheism, based on the above, certainly seems to be a belief system. Certainly, the overwhelming number of people who profess atheism appear to be quite certain that they are correct and that everyone else who may believe in a God is either an idiot or a lune. Bill Maher, on a number of occasions, stated that he never said there was no God. But now he's revised his thinking and is quite convinced there is none -- and to the point that he and his atheist friends regard themselves as several notches up on the evolutionary chain from everyone else. In fact, they're incredulous that the rest of us should be allowed to vote or hold office! I have no doubt that if they could seize power, they would most likely seek to control what everyone else believed. I think it was Christopher Hitchens who referred to himself and others who shared his beliefs as "brights." I can only guess what he would call relgionists!

9

My JW Relatives Don't Call or Write...Is This Normal?

by Cold Steel in

they've been jws for years, but they've never once called, written or seemed to have wanted anything to do with us.

they weren't like this when they were still catholics.

are they told not to have anything to do with non-members, even family?

Cold Steel

They've been JWs for years, but they've never once called, written or seemed to have wanted anything to do with us. They weren't like this when they were still Catholics. Are they told not to have anything to do with non-members, even family? My sister's tried the hardest to stay in touch, but they don't return her phone calls or e-mails.

Are members discouraged from family ties or is this just antisocial behavior? They've been members since the early 70s and a few years ago one of them wanted to open a JW bookstore.

Should we just give up on them or keep trying? I want to know what the official dope is.

Thanks.

40

It's official, got DF'ed last night

by notverylikely in

i'm out.

free at last, free at last..

Cold Steel

This is very strange to me.

Why would you be celebrating being kicked out? If you were the one who made the decision, that would be one thing. But they kicked you out -- not the other way around. If you wanted out, why didn't you tell them to take a hike?

What does being DF'd entail? Do they mention your name in a meeting and say, "He's DF'd...if you see him or his dawg, don't have nuthin' to do with 'im!" And is disfellowshipping the same as being excommunicated?

I'm not a JW, naturally, but I'm fascinated by all this. The most interesting aspect is that if they hadn't DF'd you, then you would still be a member, and then would congratulations still be in order?

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47

We were all Atheists when we were born, at what age did you change?

by cyberjesus in

i was a born in.

but when i was born i knew nothing.

i had no deity nor i knew what a god was therefore i was atheist.

Cold Steel

You don't know what you knew as a child. It's entirely possible you knew nothing, as you stated.

But atheism is a belief. A religion. It posits that there is no God. Thus, it's more accurate to say that you were born an agnostic. (After all, you were born not knowing about Los Angeles, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist and that you believed Los Angeles didn't exist. Chances are, if your father told you at 3 that you and the rest of the family were going to Disneyland in L.A. that you would have been ignorant of L.A., but nothing more or less.

You can say that you were ignorant of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny at 3, but that didn't mean they did or didn't exist. It simply means that you didn't know enough to have an opinion. That came later.

Some people who have near death experiences say they saw people they knew before they were born, and that they had a clear memory of knowing them; however, at birth that knowledge was not part of their mental make up.

The bottom line is that you were born an agnostic and then taught things that were both right and wrong. If you argue that God is one of them, so be it. I believe the case for God is considerable. The Earth's exact placement in the solar system, the existence and placement of the Moon (a foreign body to our solar system); the fact that the Moon is the exact size, mass and distance from the Earth to keep it stabilzed, and the exacting complexity of advanced life forms all attest that there is a God. If the Earth was any closer or further from the Sun, life would not be possible. If the Moon didn't stabilize our orbit, we'd have a new equator every day. Amino acids can sit around for untold millenia and not form anything other than a puddle, so who kicked things into being?

I don't begrudge anyone being an atheist. It's a free country (for now). But atheists shouldn't treat God like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. The very fact that many billions of years ago, the Universe was not...then suddenly it was. It's not static. Babies are taught what they're taught. I'm not saying the Hebrew God brought everything into existence (though I personally believe it for other reasons), but something did...some Intelligence, and those of us who believe in God are not the idiots Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens make us out to be. So show me a baby who's convinced there is no God, and I'll show you a baby who doesn't believe in Los Angeles!

8

Going to Heaven...I'm Confused

by dssynergy in

so, the whole concept of jehovah having people going to heaven to rule with christ doesn't make sense to me.

doesn't the idea that christ "needs" helpers insinuate that he is not the perfect ruler that he is portrayed to be?

why does god need people in heaven?

Cold Steel

These types of threads seem to die. Is it because the whole heaven/hell thing is so difficult to understand by JWs? It's one thing to draw pictures of children petting lions and people gathering flowers in Paradise -- but from there it's kind of nebulous.

What's the whole heaven/hell thing all about, anyway?

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26

Why Are Jehovah's Witnesses Considered by Many to Be a Cult?

by Cold Steel in

in a world thats growing increasingly profligate and vile, im concerned so much vitriol is aimed at churches like the jehovahs witnesses.

im not one, and i have theological differences with it; however other religions and former members of the religion seem to be unusually bitter and critical.

i admit to being unfamiliar with many of the social aspects of the church, but all churches have a hierarchal structure and its not unusual for many churches to also be dogmatic in relation to the scriptures.

Cold Steel

I've never been on the inside, StAnn. I've also never had any friends that are JWs. I'm not sure any JWs would be allowed to be a friend.

Do you really think they're closer to Jim Jones than they are other religions? I look at ancient Christianity and examine the critics of first century Christians and the standard charges were 1) blasphemy; 2) secrecy; 3) cliqishness; and 4) dogmatism. These could also be applied to the Jehovah's Witnesses could they not? But early Christians did spread out and befriend Gentiles; and they got along with the Jews for quite a while, until the Gentile influence became noticable.

What makes me question whether they're a cult is that they're apparently leaking members left and right. If they really are employing mind control tactics, it seems like many would be staying. In Warren Jeffs group, the only reason they're leaking members is because the disgusting old men are marrying all the young women, leaving the young men with no one to date or marry. It makes me livid to see such people doing this. In some ways, Jeffs is one of the worst of the lot.

But who's benefitting in the JW organization? I understand many are disfellowshipped and this has all the earmarks of an organization that's rife with rebellion. The more they try to discipline, the more rebellion they cause. The kids are growing up and leaving, so the mind control doesn't appear to be working in the long run. But in Islam, they're strapping on bombs left and right.

What is a cult? And does the First Amendment protect them? Or should it? Where does one draw the line?

I'm not trying to defend them because I have no dog in this fight. But please let me know what's going on in the inside. How many people are in the "anointed class" and does this imbue them with power? In other words, if I'm in the anointed class and question certain doctrinal interpretations, am I as liable as any to be disciplined?

35

Do Elders and Bethelites really follow this site?

by jamesmahon in

just a question really and whilst i would not put it past them i sort of feel it is too 'conspiracy theory' for me.

are elders and bethelites officially sanctioned to lurk (or engage) in this or other sites to try to weedle out apostates?

does anyone have any direct experience of it happening?.

Cold Steel

When someone's disfellowshipped, what then? Is your name read in a public meeting? Do people shun you?

What if you're of the anointed class? Does that make a difference?

And what if you're a convert? You get baptized and then when do they drop the ball about your not being allowed to read certain websites? What if an elder comes over and, while chatting, the elder sees a Qur'an or Book of Mormon on your bookshelf? Or, say, Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults?

The scriptures don't explicitly state what's in your library, do they? But if they, fer instance, mention the faithful and discreet slave, perhaps the Governing Body sees itself as having supplementary authority.

Does the church have problems with short memberships? Like six months or less? This is all very fascinating.

26

Why Are Jehovah's Witnesses Considered by Many to Be a Cult?

by Cold Steel in

in a world thats growing increasingly profligate and vile, im concerned so much vitriol is aimed at churches like the jehovahs witnesses.

im not one, and i have theological differences with it; however other religions and former members of the religion seem to be unusually bitter and critical.

i admit to being unfamiliar with many of the social aspects of the church, but all churches have a hierarchal structure and its not unusual for many churches to also be dogmatic in relation to the scriptures.

Cold Steel

In a world that’s growing increasingly profligate and vile, I’m concerned so much vitriol is aimed at churches like the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’m not one, and I have theological differences with it; however other religions and former members of the religion seem to be unusually bitter and critical. And the word “cult” is used in relation to it.

I admit to being unfamiliar with many of the social aspects of the church, but all churches have a hierarchal structure and it’s not unusual for many churches to also be dogmatic in relation to the scriptures.

The word “cult,” though, has acquired a vicious connotation that, in the past, has been limited to the likes of Jim Jones, David Koresh and Warren Jeffs. Now it’s routinely applied to Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses and other sects that, while they may not be mainstream, are far removed from the real wackos.

One Internet article, for example, begins: “If you are involved in Seventh Day Adventism or any other cult, let me assure you that your friends and relatives do care.” Later the author states, “When I consider Seventh Day Adventists whom I know personally, I realize that none of them is happy.” He then goes on to mention their “perverted lifestyles,” their “delusions” and “self righteousness.” Similar articles appear for just about any religion you can imagine. Entire websites are aimed at Catholicism, assuring people that the Pope is the Antichrist.

I have no issue with critical review of religions; however, what is it about the Jehovah’s Witnesses that inspire such hatred?

Another website calls the JWs a “destructive cult” and reports: “The Jehovah Witness Watchtower is a big money (billion a year) mind control operation that steals the hearts, minds and ultimately the lives of it’s followers. The cult uses mind control tools to keep members in line such as: milieu control, loaded language, demand for purity, confession, mystical manipulation, doctrine over person, sacred science, dispensing of existence, control of environment, closed logic, and most of all fear.” And “Cult members…aren’t allowed to read anything critical of the cult so they don’t think for themselves. [They use] mind control techniques to create a nowhere to run, nowhere to hide atmosphere for the members. Members must literally spy on other cult members to ensure that they have not violated cult rules.”

Although the Witnesses are dogmatic and somewhat eccentric, most other religions also have a canon of scripture, a board of governors or a central convention. Evangelicals used to use the Catholics as their primary whipping boy, but recently Catholics (who “pray” to saints and believe in all sorts of strange doctrines like transubstantiation) have proven to be better allies against the crop of “cults.”

So why the charges of cultism in a day when Christianity is dying in large parts of the U.S.? I don’t know if the charges of mind control are right or not, but I find the mind control used my many progressives and Marxists to be far more dangerous to people — and very few people are attacking this trend, which is being taught in the schools and universities of the U.S. In short, as long as people can just walk away from a religion and speak out against it, how much of a “cult” can it be? And how much is hype?

Admittedly, I don’t know what the Witness culture looks like from the inside. I’ve never talked to an “elder” or “overseer,” but are the Jehovah’s Witnesses really the cult many people say (this isn’t rhetorical, I’m just asking from ignorance)? I just think the term “cult” has been overused on the Internet, and to me churches like the Seventh Day Adventists and the Witnesses have more in common with other Christian churches than they do with the wackos.

What do you think?

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P.S. -- Someone recommended the book Combatting Cult Mind Control, by Steven Hassan. I'd be interested in hearing any stories where you or someone else was subjected to mind control from within the church.

35

Do Elders and Bethelites really follow this site?

by jamesmahon in

just a question really and whilst i would not put it past them i sort of feel it is too 'conspiracy theory' for me.

are elders and bethelites officially sanctioned to lurk (or engage) in this or other sites to try to weedle out apostates?

does anyone have any direct experience of it happening?.

Cold Steel

Well, what is the penalty for being caught on a board like this? Excommunication? Shunning? (Disfellowshipment?) Death by stoning?

People do have freedom of speech and religion, don't they? Even if they do read information critical of the church, there is free agency isn't there?

Can someone fill me in?